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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
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Posted - 2015.03.16 22:18:32 -
[1] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Healthy Mary wrote:Forget walking... when do we get to strut, gambol, or sashay in stations? I proceed. Others shuffle along in half bows, eyes averted. 
You're not on the CSM yet.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:51:20 -
[2] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote:We have WiS already but we are limited to our captains quarters. So why anyone would be against working on it further is beyond me because its not going anywhere.
If you are against WiS you have already lost so why not help make suggestions to improve the crap we have currently.
I can only give my perspective on that, but I'm one of those that doesn't currently see benefit to further development of WiS.
My basic reason is that I haven't personally seen any suggestion for additions to WiS that provide any new meaningful gameplay that we can't already access from our ships.
From the existing CQ I can access my inventory, the fitting window, contracts, the market, mission agents, PI, Corporation, etc. using the UI of the CQ. However, the NEOCOM is still right there and provides quicker access to all of those things.
So aside from the one time, 'oh that's cool' immersion factor, the rest of the time the CQ interface just gets in the way and makes things slower compared to remaining in my ship/pod and accessing all of those things via the NEOCOM.
Some people might get a great kick out of sitting in a bar having a drink.
But for me, aside from just doing it once, there's no meaningful new gameplay in "Scipio sits down and has a drink" sort of additions. They are fluff with no value to the things I play the game for.
Great if others would find meaningful ways to use them. If they want to push for additional WiS features, I'm not going to argue against that, but neither am I going to argue to support it. Until something meaningful is proposed that we can't do from our ships, I'm totally agnostic to any additional WiS features.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:04:47 -
[3] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites.
I doubt it.
That could occur two ways:
1. In game CCP developed gambling rooms; or
2. Removal of those 3rd party options from the game all together.
If CCP were to develop in game pokers rooms, lotteries, slot machines, etc. that would immediately classify Eve as a game that " encourage or teach gambling" under the PEGI system that CCP are already part of and legally, those aspects of the game may not be suitable to play in all countries, requiring CCP to comply with pieces of legislation that they might have no clue even exist.
In relaton to removing that options from the game all together, well that doesn't seem possible. They already operate within the existing game. Adding WiS won't remove them.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:07:48 -
[4] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote: They are the video game developers and I think we should all start trusting them a bit more with where they want to take EVE.
At the moment, CCP don't appear to want to add anything further to WiS.
I hate it when I remember something CCP Seagull has said, but can't find it immediately. She said something recently that made it clear that WiS is not a current or near future development direction.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:16:02 -
[5] - Quote
Scarlett Anstian wrote:Is this not a game about gambling?  To me it kinda is
To you it kinda might be.
That's different to a legal classification, which do not currently apply to Eve.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:27:20 -
[6] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... For me it really comes down to would it be worth the effort required. Well to start off, it could be a far more immersive way to kill off those 3rd party gambling websites. I doubt it. That could occur two ways: 1. In game CCP developed gambling rooms; or 2. Removal of those 3rd party options from the game all together. If CCP were to develop in game pokers rooms, lotteries, slot machines, etc. that would immediately classify Eve as a game that " encourage or teach gambling" under the PEGI system that CCP are already part of and legally, those aspects of the game may not be suitable to play in all countries, requiring CCP to comply with pieces of legislation that they might have no clue even exist. In relation to removing that options from the game all together, well that doesn't seem possible. They already operate within the existing game. Adding WiS won't remove them. Actually, by adding the gambling classification on PEGI, it only means the game can't be lower than a 12, which it already is. It wouldn't require any legislation unless you were able to gamble for real money. Technically speaking they should already have that classification though, as you engage in gambling through third party sites and through the Jita spammers. Sure, those are in almost every case scams, but it's still a promotion of gambling occurring within the game and being specifically allowed by the developers.
I didn't write that it required legislation.
I wrote that adding gambling, directly CCP developed means they could be exposed to legislation that they are not even aware of, but must comply with.
If you can 100% say that you understand all gaming legislation in place in every country Eve is played, then fair enough. If you can't though, then it's lucky that CCP have to take into account a whole range of issues when they develop features for the game and that includes considering the legal aspects.
For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission.
CCP couldn't be expected to know that, yet if a parent or someone else reported it, they would be investigated for a breach of the law.
I don't see why CCP would want to expose themselves to those sorts of risk and restrictions, let alone the do-gooders and perpetual complainers if 12 y/o kids were beIng taught by the game how to gamble. That just doesn't seem worth it to me.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:36:58 -
[7] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:... so perhaps they should just cease all graphical updates too then?
If you think they should then great for you.
Not what I think, but each to their own.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:46:54 -
[8] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission. .... Not the most difficult bit of code to disable your ability to gamble based on your location.
Really?
Break it down for me so that Eve is compliant and remains compliant with changing legislation Workdwide associated with gambling.
If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously?
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:59:51 -
[9] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:If you can 100% say that you understand all gaming legislation in place in every country Eve is played, then fair enough. If you can't though, then it's lucky that CCP have to take into account a whole range of issues when they develop features for the game and that includes considering the legal aspects. Obviously I can't say that, but I can say that I know of no game that has had to deal with legislation over purely in-game gambling systems with no real money gambling. As PEGI is an opt-in classification system, there's no reason to believe they would have to do anything more based on that classification changing, doubly so because the game already has significant elements of gambling within it. Scipio Artelius wrote:For example, in the Territory I live in, if CCP were to include poker or slot machines or lotteries or other similar features even with ISK inside Eve, the game would be classified for 18+only because of the ability to exchange cash for ISK, even though it can't go the other way. The game would have to be licenced by the gaming commission. What territory would that be? The game should already be 18+ then because you can buy PLEX, trade it for ISK and pay it straight into the BIG lottery. I don't believe you are understanding that legislation correctly as it would make a huge number of games require 18+ certification and licensing. Generally that's only required if you can gamble cash for cash (or transfer them both ways through tokens to gamble with).
Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not.
CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:24:12 -
[10] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously? Back bone IP addresses are static.
That doesn't break it down. How does CCP keep track of which places it can be switched on for and which it can't?
You can block an IP from an aspect of the game, but how are you going to track which ones?
I keep track of legislative changes (in a completely different subject area, not gambling related) regionally to help keep the relevant countries compliant with treaty obligations. It's a nightmare just on a regional level of 34 countries, let alone Worldwide.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:10:40 -
[11] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not. I can't find any mention anywhere of gambling for virtual currency being disallowed. The only references I can find are when it constitutes real money gambling, such as second life. Scipio Artelius wrote:CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply. It's irrelevant how it's offered up, they actively allow it. They've even partnered with some of the 3rd party gambling corps for official events. Scipio Artelius wrote:While we can both see that it is all in game currency, so might seem just the same as any other free online games and apps, the law isn't always so straight forward. The ability to purchase PLEX for cash, sell that for ISK and then gamble exposes problem gamblers to the potential of substantial real cash loss in game. Problem gambling has had a significant focus from the community in Australia over the last few years and being the nanny State we are, legislation to protect people from themselves has been implemented in recent years. They already are at risk. They could buy 1000 plex, convert it all to isk and throw it all into iwantisk. There's no reason that wouldn't cause as much grief for CCP as a system the built themselves. In fact a system they built themselves would more easily be able to handle limits on the amount you can put in.
That you can't find the relevant legislation is exactly the sort of problem that CCP would face.
You can argue all you want that it's all the same. We are both space lawyering here and not from any solid foundation to do so. What both of us are talking about are based on our layman views. Trying to suggest anything more is stupid.
I know the things I am aware of in relation to my country, but I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't know the finer details of how responsibility for different aspects falls under the law. Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion.
So arguing this is just stupid. It's not as simple as CCP could replace all 3rd party gambling by including it in WiS. it's more complex then that. How much more complex. **** knows but I certainly don't take confidence just because you say so. That would be the last thing I would ever do, since most discussions with you are just circular arguments that go nowhere.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:23:55 -
[12] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:... Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion. ... Look up the specific cases and legislation. There are already games with gambling in them. Who ever put pressure on Second Life (servers in California) ruled that all gambling must be "skill" based (like poker and they have slot machines that have little tile puzzles on them) as their currency directly translates into real money. There are many gambling web sites that would have had similar problems regarding ratings.
We're just going off topic here and for that I apologise.
I've said my piece and don't want to take the thread fetcher off topic by discussing where rulings of any court apply.
So back to WiS.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.11.19 05:07:12 -
[13] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:CON
Still no obvious ingame purpose other than showing off your avatar.
Bad Blood from previous attempt will make it hard to implement unless its done in very small increments.
One more con;
CON:
CCP no longer own the WoD IP
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.12.30 04:30:57 -
[14] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that.
If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else.
That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.12.30 05:25:02 -
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Avvy wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why brawls? So they can get to those that don't leave the station. Not that it would do any good, because if they don't leave the station they're unlikely to leave the Captain's Cabin. Especially if they can still do everything from there and there would be no real reason to change that. If I remember correctly, WiS was always planned to be conflict free. There was going to be no way to kill someone else. That was tied into Lore about our cloning technology (different from DUSTies), which of course could be changed, but was never part of the original development. Okay, at the risk of being slightly off topic, I have no idea why I have a Blue tag for Excellent Standings next to your portrait. I don't recall ever meeting you and I am not familiar with your Corporation. Forum bug, one character can be red, grey and blue all on the same day.
I'm sometimes red to myself.
That's probably correct though.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2015.12.30 05:41:35 -
[16] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:This thread is group therapy where everyone shares their disappointment to get it out.
Welcome, MidnightWyvern.
Yeah I'm disappointed he no longer has me blue.
What did I do to be reset?
I hope the door opens one day. I'll go find him.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.01.04 22:26:24 -
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Kuronaga wrote:What big project by CCP has ever reached its planned, climactic conclusion? In the history of ever?
I guess the good thing about Eve as a whole is there is no major climatic conclusion.
It's been in continuous development for more than 15 years now and playable for 13 of those.
Lot's of smaller projects along the way in the overall big project that is Eve, but it's hard to look past the game itself as a major success for CCP.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.01.20 04:23:28 -
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Captain Tardbar wrote:If you had Star Citizen, you'd be walking in stations right now!
I've seen the videos. Looks interesting.
How many people are on one server together?
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